Victors, Not Victims: Edafe Okporo on Storytelling, Refugees, and Reclaiming Identity
Edafe Okporo shares how storytelling shapes identity, challenges bias, and drives change. He shared his experiences as a gay refugee, media founder, and leader supporting LGBTQ asylum seekers navigating life in a new country.
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Omaralexis Ochoa: Hey everybody and happy new year. It is finally 2020, a new year, a new decade, which means new experiences. And I am so excited to be sharing my first new experience of the year with you all. My very first podcast interview.
It’s with someone I’m ecstatic for you to meet. So let’s just jump in.
Meet Edafe Okporo
Omaralexis Ochoa: Let me introduce you to Edafe Okporo. He is an incredible leader and advocate for LGBTQIA+ people, but also for the rights of refugees in the United States. A businessman, writer, and refugee himself, Edafe has lived an incredibly accomplished and extraordinary life.
Edafe Okporo was born in Warri, Nigeria, and currently lives in New York City. He is a writer, and his memoir, Bed 26, was published in 2018. Edafe is a businessman and the executive director of RDJ Refugee Shelter in Harlem, New York.
He identifies as a gay man, which is actually what led to his displacement in 2016. Edafe is now a refugee of the United States.
He has since founded The Pont LLC, a full‑service media company helping brands tell their stories and empowering communities through storytelling. His work has been featured on NowThis, NBC New York, The Advocate, and the Thomson‑Reuters Foundation, to name just a few.
However, above all, Edafe teaches leaders how to inspire their teams and how to grow a meaningful community. He has worked with government officials, both profit and nonprofit organizations, and educators on building bridges.
Edafe is joining me remotely from New York City. Edafe, thank you so much for coming on.
Founding The Pont & Media as a Continuum
Edafe Okporo: Thank you very much for having me. I’m so excited to speak to you about my experience today.
Omaralexis Ochoa: Of course. We are extremely fortunate to have you on the podcast. You are incredibly accomplished, so I suppose where I’d like to begin is with your work in media. What inspired you to start The Pont?
Edafe Okporo: So that’s a very good question. Media is something that people think you start at one time in your life or another. I think it is a continuum. Everybody should be a media company before anything that they do.
So I started The Pont LLC to help tell the stories of immigrants, because immigrants and LGBTQ people in general have been commodified.
The commodification of Black LGBTQ people is like: we see your talent, we see what you do, but you are nobody except that talent. So the purpose of The Pont is to help create that persona and image — that people are who they are despite their careers or whatever identity is placed before them.
So seeing yourself as a publisher or as a media house, we help you to create the narratives and help you to take back your story from people that have been telling it all wrong. Because only you, or only the community which is affected, has the power to tell their story in a way that will make them victors and not victims.
Commodification, Representation & Media Narratives
Omaralexis Ochoa: I completely agree with your take on the commodification of queer people and people of color. The tokenization of these marginalized groups within media, and the lack of queers and people of color in writers’ rooms especially, is something that reminds me of a panel discussion I attended recently in North Hollywood.
Gina Yashere, who is a writer for the television show Bob Hearts Abishola, commented on this exact issue. When she joined Chuck Lorre’s team, one of the first things she pushed for was bringing more people of color into the room. The show is one of the first network television series in America to feature a Nigerian family. So it was important to Gina to bring on people with relevant experiences to truly tell the story correctly.
So what would you say is the biggest project you’ve worked on in helping tell a queer or person‑of‑color story correctly during your time at The Pont?
Commodification is: we see your talent, we see what you do, but you are nobody except that talent. People are who they are despite their careers or whatever identity is placed before them.
Edafe Okporo: So when I came to the United States, I didn’t know that Black or queer people were being commodified. I just went about doing things the way I used to do them.
Then I discovered that often when I go into a room and leave the room, the headline written afterward is different from the headline discussed while I was in the room.
I worked with Indeed — it’s a job website — to help create job accessibility for queer immigrants who relocate to this country. I explained that often immigrants are portrayed as people who come to sap from our resources.
So worked together to frame up messages that were positive about immigrants. If you go to indeed.com/jobchangeus, you’ll see some of the stories I produced about immigrants, LGBTQ who came to the U.S. with came with their own livelihoods, but had to rebuild their lives in a new country — which is double the amount of effort compared to an American to find a job.
They often have to rewrite their resumes from West African or Asian formats to U.S. formats, learn how to dress appropriately, and adapt to new cultural norms. So Job Change Us was a media project to show that people are more than what you see, they have more qualtities than just their appear or essence or what you see on paper.
Bias, Employment & Narrative Control
Omaralexis Ochoa: Right, exactly. And even harkening back to one of the earlier podcast episodes that I actually covered on was related to the Human Rights Campaign and how there are several studies that have been published on things like the gay wage gap, and how organizations orient themselves towards benefiting and bringing in more queer talent with more queer-oriented benefits and other programs.
One of the interesting drivers of a gay wage gap in some studies has been shown to be that oftentimes, when it comes to a resume or anything on paper — online profiles, LinkedIn, those things — there is some inherent bias against people of color, people on the LGBTQIA+ spectrum that does have impacts on how often they’re hired or whether or not they going through the interview process.
And it's unfortunate to know that this sort of discrimination exists — especially for queer people, especially for people of color who LGBT leadership roles on their resumes, or having a less common surname.
Edafe Okporo: That is true. That is why I created The Pont. If your destiny is in the hands of somebody else, you cannot control it. Queer media and queer leadership in general have left the responsibility of changing the narrative in the hands of other people who do not know their struggles. Until queer people find themselves in positions to create jobs and influence inclusivity, there will be no tangible change.
Why Storytelling Matters
Omaralexis Ochoa: I totally agree with you on that. It's important to have diverse people in the room, and that's definitely one of the big points that I try to make on every podcast episode — whichbrings me to my next question: for all these reasons, why do you think storytelling is important not only for brands, but for communities?
Edafe Okporo: Storytelling is the most important ingredient of human society. How we behave is shaped by the stories we are told.
The gay generation between the ages of 50 and 75 literally died for us to survive. The generation between 25 and 50 is supposed to live so that the next generation believes that forming families is part of the gay story.
We cannot change narratives without telling different stories. And whose responsibility is it to tell the story, if not ours?
If your destiny is in the hands of somebody else, you cannot control it.
Edafe Okporo: The is the most important ingredient of the human society, storytelling. How we behave is because of the stories we have been told. I grew up as a Christian. I never knew anything about the Muslim religion, Paganism or any other religion, and I used to believe that every other person would go to hell if they don't become Christian. So the stories we are told shape who we become.
Until we decide to start telling different stories, the next generation of people that are coming would believe those stories we are told. The gay generation that are between the ages of 50 to 75 years, they literally died for our current generation to survive. Then the gay generation between the age of 15 to 25 years are supposed to live so that the next generation will believe that being able to form a family is part of the gay story. Stories shape who we are.
We cannot be able to change the narrative without telling a different story. And whose responsibility it is to tell the story, if not ours?
Mainstream Queer Representation
Omaralexis Ochoa: This brings me to a sidenote — there was a movie that recently came out called Love, Simon. There were two schools of thought on this movie: that it was positive representation, or that it wasn’t “gay enough” — like any other love story.
I bring it up because when it comes to storytelling and seeing yourself represented in media, I think this movie is a simple, Disney channel love story that every kid growing up saw — but to-date they were straight stories. This is the one crappy young gay movie that young gay people watching TV get to see. Even though it’s not a critically acclaimed film, I think it says something about the movement of society that the gays now have their very own sappy, teen drama movie. I think it says something about how normalized it is becoming.
Edafe Okporo: Gradually the stories will become more and more gay and more and more diverse. But they have to be a starting point. And if this is the beginning of such stories being told in media, then we should take it for what it is. Do you remember the first time you ever saw a gay character on a series? You celebrated it for what it is.
But at the same time, we shouldn't be satisfied; we should continue to push, but we should also rejoice what we are able to gain. Capitalism has shaped the way we think as a society. People do not appreciate the amount of effort it took, how many people died for gay people to be able to get to this point in society, thereby they are appreciated for who they are.
If you saw the movie, the Lavada Scare, the documentary, gay people were not allowed to be employed by the federal government for so many years. And in the military, you weren't be able to be gay. At least now, we have significant representation, like Mayor Pete Buttigieg contesting for president. The reason why is that people like us came out and said, “We want to tell our stories. We want to change the narrative of how people see us."
Until queer people find themselves in positions to create jobs and influence inclusivity, there will be no tangible change.
So if you think that people are not doing enough, then go and contribute to what is already being done. Negativity does not improve the fight for equality. Every action we take is drawing us closer and removing some boundaries for younger generation to face. The fight we fight is not the fight that people before us fought. So things are improving but we should not be satisfied.
Refugee Experience & RDJ Refugee Shelter
Omaralexis Ochoa: There's always more work that can be done. And just because the trials and tribulations that queer people face today, maybe aren't "as bad" or may be slightly better versus historically what people have faced, it doesn't mean that we should, of course, settle — there's always work to be done. So I want to pivot just a bit onto your experience as the executive director of the RDJ Refugee shelter. How did you become the executive director of this organization?
Edafe Okporo: So I think it was based on my experience as a refugee who was displaced in 2016. I came to the US seeking asylum. I was detained in an immigration detention center when I was granted asylum. I was released. I had nowhere to go. And I later find my way through all these difficulties. And when I was living my life working in New Jersey, it always occurred to me that when you came to this country if you had a place to go to you wouldn't have been homeless. So I thought about it — that the best way for me to give back is to use my experience to help people who might be going through the same process I was going through. So when I saw the availability at RDJ I applied for the job and now I've taken the job from what it was like just a Director that was doing both case management and communication and everything to a full-fledged organization of 4-5 staff.
So we are still growing, but we are the only organization in New York City that provide housing for asylum seekers and refugees who are prone to the LGBTQ. Gay people in 7+ countries, gay people are punishable by being stoned to death in more than 75+countries is illegal to be gay.
People flee from Russia, Iran, West Africa, Angola, and even Uganda and transgender people from Central America. When they come to America, they don't have a place to live, so I'm working as a director for RDJ and both helping LGBTQ people and displaced people to help them find their feet in a new country because I've been able to do that for myself.
I always use myself as a motivation to others to let them know that I did it, so they to can do it.
Ask yourself: how can I use my privileges for the benefits or the good of others?
Omaralexis Ochoa: Definitely leading by example and providing — from your experience — providing a framework and some hope for people that come from these places all around the world to live a better life here in United States. So would you say that is what you value most by serving as the Shelter's executive director?
Edafe Okporo: I wouldn't say that. I think that the most important thing that I valued most was to be free to be who I want to be because I was a professional in Nigeria but people do not value my skills because I was gay. So being free to be creative, to be gay or not gay, as my private life, and to be able to lead an organization and be an entrepreneur and create businesses for people -- and to still be myself as a gay person — I think that's the most valuable thing coming to the United States. It is to live in a more inclusive society that people do not judge me only based on my sexual orientation, than in places where people judge me based on my ability and based on what I can contribute as a human being.
Omaralexis Ochoa: What can listeners do to help the shelter?
Edafe Okporo: So listeners, wherever they are, can contribute by visiting our website, www.rdjrefugeeshelter.org to donate. But there are so many LGBTQ organizations all around the country. I think that people who have gotten experience in professional field can also use their experiences to help lead community-based organizations that are looking for someone with a finance degree, to help them with their answer and balance their account at the end of the year. Or someone who has skills in grammar or English to help write resume for the immigrants that migrate to this country that happen to be LGBTQ, or just by being a friend to somebody because by speaking with them to help them become more culturally able to survive in a new country.
So, whatever you do, ask yourself “What privileges do I have that other people do not have? And how can I use my privileges for the benefits or the good of others?" That itself is the highest service you can give to others.
Writing Bed 26
Omaralexis Ochoa: So I have a couple of questions on your memoir, Bed 26. What do you hope readers will gain from reading this book and what did you gain from writing it?
Edafe Okporo: So when I was growing up as a gay child in Nigeria, I never saw books, videos, audios about people being gay. So when I was writing Bed 26, the first thing was to have that representation of gay African people in a book. Secondly, Bed 26 was my bed number. When immigrants come to America, they lose their name to numbers. So I wanted to document my experience to let people know that the person behind that bed number was a human being.
I want listeners to be able to understand the experiences of immigrants, why people flee, and for people in my country to know that they too exist and there's somebody like them somewhere.
Omaralexis Ochoa: How should the treatment of refugees and immigrants in the U.S. change?
Edafe Okporo: Oh my goodness. That is a question I don't think I can answer alone because it's a policy issue. It's at the federal level because the president of the country and the administration shape how people view the perception of immigrants. The largest voice we have is the president of the United States of America.
And if the president is portraying immigrants as people who are leeches, a larger percentage of the society will see immigrants that way. I think the best way for us to change our perception about immigrants is to hear their stories, learn about who they are. Because when you hear somebody's stories, it changes your perception of who that person is. Let's look at the generation of people that came before us.
When the Irish came, there was push-back against them. Before JFK became a Catholic president, they have never been a Catholic president in America. When the Italians came, nobody regarded them as white. When Jews came, they said "Jews will not replace us." Now it might be Muslims, or it might be gay people. So when we have barriers to accepting people, we should become more curious to learn about those people because when you understand people more than just your biases, you get to be able to see how you can help those people because you have known beyond your biases. I think people should be more curious to learn the reasons why immigrants flee to the United States.
Ongoing Challenges
Omaralexis Ochoa: So what are some obstacles that — since after coming to the United States — you're still facing as a refugee, or a gay man or anything about life here in the United States?
Edafe Okporo: Before I came to the United States, I never knew that being Black was something different. So it's not an “obstacle" because I live in New York City, but I don't like the fact that people are being commodified.
They praise you for doing something brilliant, but when something goes bad -- as an immigrant — you don't say "that individual immigrant was bad;" you're like “All immigrants are bad people.” because this one immigrant did something bad.
But when a white person did something bad, a white gay man, a white straight man raped a child, people will be like be like, “Harvey Weinstein is bad. Jeffrey Epstein is bad." They would not say "all white men are bad." So I think that something that bothers me is the generalization of anything bad between all immigrants; all gay people; all black people. “All gay people are pedophiles, all Black people are criminals, all immigrants are drug traffickers.”
So that generalization still bothers me because it's something we have control over if we can be able to understand that these biases we have are innate based on our growing up and images that have been taught about these people to us. It's like using a single story to define an entire people.
Omaralexis Ochoa: Right. And then hearkening back to your comments on the power of storytelling, really it is sharing that one story that could change the perspective for, someone in the United States (or wherever) that they don't get the experience of meeting and working with: a man from Nigeria, or a gay person, or a person of color. It's sharing that story that could very well change their perspective.
Edafe Okporo: And that is the most important thing. Understanding that our stories are very important. How we say it matters, who we say it to matters.
Being Gay in Nigeria
Omaralexis Ochoa: So I have a couple of questions on your life in Nigeria. You touched on it previously in how you saw really no representation of gay people or queer people at all while living in Nigeria and it was part of the reason that you were displaced. Can you describe from your experiences what being gay is like in Nigeria?
Edafe Okporo: So this is tough to explain but I will try.
When I came to the US, I came because I was fleeing persecution from my own country, Nigeria -- queer people in Nigeria face up to 14 years imprisonment for being gay. So it is hard to explain what it takes to be a gay man in Nigeria, but from the law, you can understand that gay people in Nigeria can face up to 14 years in prison, and this leads to lot of non-state actors acting on behalf of the government: blackmail, extortion, and constantly in denial of who you are to be able to please people.
Omaralexis Ochoa: So do you know of any movements or rights organizations that could use support out there in Nigeria?
Edafe Okporo: Yeah, so there's so many. There's one of them that I worked with while I was in Nigeria. It's called T.S. The Initiative for Equal Rights.
Asylum Under the Trump Administration
Omaralexis Ochoa: So regarding your asylum here in the United States, I found a note related to your memoir that said you were actually granted asylum in the US just before the election of President Donald Trump. How would you say the landscape has changed since then?
Edafe Okporo: I was granted asylum after Trump became president, but I came few days before the election of President Donald Trump. Working, I can speak from my experience as the director of RDJ refugee shelter that asylum has changed in America. The Trump administration have tried to fight against immigrants who are living in this country because all the policies they have passed like the “First In, Last Out” -- it now takes 21 days before the grant of asylum. Usually you have time to file your application and do so many other things. A lot has changed under the Trump administration.
I think people should be more curious to learn the reasons why immigrants flee to the United States.
There is now public charge law that if an immigrant is taking benefit from the government, they might not be eligible for protection. Temporary protester status is no longer available for women who are survivors of violence. Just a lot of people working every day and night to erase immigrants from coming to this country. The worst of all is the “Safe Third Country” whereby asylum seekers can stay in Guatemala or the Triangle. This is disastrous.
Final Thoughts & Closing
Omaralexis Ochoa: Those were all the questions I had, but are there any last words or messages you really want to hammer in on storytelling or immigration or refugees that you really want the audience to take away?
Edafe Okporo: In final words, I would say that if you hear the story of somebody that touches you, it is imperative that you don't go and become — or live with the ignorance — by ignoring that story. It is good that you learn not just the story, but how you could contribute in bettering the life of others. Because if you continuously change the narrative by using one person to help another, everybody can be able to learn from: A) this person is trying to be a good person in this world. What can I also do to try to do that?
We should just try to always look for opportunities to help people, to make the world less heavy for people that do not have same privileges we have.
Omaralexis Ochoa: Edafe, thank you so much. was fantastic having you on. I really appreciate it and I'm sure the audience is going to love it. So again, thank you so, so much and I appreciate it hearing your story.
Edafe Okporo: My pleasure.